Connecting Personalized Marketing And Sales Without Losing Trust | Paul Mosenson from NuSpark Marketing

RICK: Pathmonk is the AI for website conversions. With increasing online competition, over 98% of website visitors don’t convert. The ability to successfully show your value proposition and support visitors in their buying journey separates you from the competition online. Pathmonk qualifies and converts leads on your website by figuring out where they are in the buying journey and influencing them in key decision moments with relevant micro experiences like case studies, intro videos, and much more.

Stay relevant to your visitors and increase conversions by 50% by adding Pathmonk to your website in seconds, by letting the AI do all the work, and increase conversions while you keep doing marketing as usual. Check us out on pathmonk.com. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Pathmonk Presents. Today we’re joined by Paul Mosensons.

He’s the revenue orchestrator over at NuSpark Marketing. Paul, welcome to the show.

PAUL MOSENSON: Hey, thanks for having me today.

RICK: Glad to have you, Paul. And, people don’t know this, but we’ve had a chat, and, it was enjoyable, so I wanna run it back and share it with, with the masses, maybe we start with the basics, Paul.

We… you brand yourself as a revenue orchestrator, instead of a traditional CMO, which is really interesting for me. And, this is something I wanted to ask you the other day when we chatted. if you were explaining what a revenue orchestrator does, exactly, how would you do it? How would you describe exactly, what the orchestrating is about?

PAUL MOSENSON: Yeah. there’s, There’s so many tools and platforms out there, and sometimes you can get overwhelmed by how they work and a lot of shiny toys and things like that. But the big picture is, I’ve always said following the lead from click to close, but there’s so many factors involved.

And, a, a CMO can do the lot of strategy, I’ve done that too, and build the audience and things like that. But at the end of the day, though, we’re- our job is to feed hungry SaaS products or hungry salespeople, right? Yeah. And, and there’s so many factors involved with that, and that’s why you guys exist, too.

but it or- when you orchestrate, that means that you’re taking all these tools and platforms, AI, messaging, analytics, web- website lead capture, what, like you guys do, and, so many other variables to put together between marketing and sales in order to accelerate growth. Because, if you’re just using a tool but you’re not personalizing messaging and you’re not tracking it with links and you’re doing…

There’s so many factors involved with the whole funnel to optimize your budget and to increase your ROI. So that’s like what orchestration is, you’re putting all these tools, in my experience, AI, whatever, or it’s really about, relevant messaging to a relevant audience who, you’re hoping that they raise their hand saying, “Okay, you got me.

let’s talk.” and that’s all we do in marketing and sales, is try to optimize those hand raisers, right? And, and- and qualified hand raisers. So-

RICK: Absolutely …

PAUL MOSENSON: that’s, we can go further, but that’s, there’s so many, you can go to LinkedIn and see all these tools and everything, but they’re just tools, right?

it’s still about trust, and we’ll talk more about that and, and-

RICK: Yeah …

In fact, you, and this is something that, you bring up and you mentioned it the other day, people buy, and I quote, “People buy from humans, not bots.” And I think it was interesting, right? And, in that note, we are drowning in an automated AI outreach world.

What do you think is the number one thing companies are doing right now that are actually destroying audience trust instead of building it?

PAUL MOSENSON: Yeah, I, it’s a good question. Messaging that looks generic or I call AI jargon where… you’re talking about the messaging part of it because everything else, could be a platform. We’ve always had that, but is it, Are they… Do they really understand my needs, right? And, that’s a hard thing to do, when you’re doing mass campaigns, but you need to, take everything you have and customize it the best you can with my needs.

And, so I think that’s a lot of issues where there’s too much automation and, to be honest, I’m just saying don’t believe the statistics on LinkedIn all the time. I’ve always been, Keeping it real is trust, okay? And, we always try to keep it real because I wanna buy from you.

I’m not buying from a bot, And, I think we’re at the mercy of losing less of that personal connection, because we think AI is doing it. Nothing wrong with AI except you don’t have the personal connection with it.

RICK: Yeah. that’s a great point, and, in many ways I, find myself even just, completely outside of the, the work environment just looking at content, and wondering is this AI, right?

So I think people are already skeptical to begin with, right? They’re already seeing something, and it’s still, it’s still something that we can see through right now, but I think it will get so good at some point it will be really hard. but we don’t wanna get into the habit, I don’t think, of, just doing everything AI, right?

And you kinda lose that trust. Well- So, yeah, even for companies that are just starting out, right? Even for startups that are looking, to build that trust, right? To stay on, on, that wave, They don’t have decades of testimonials or case studies to lean on, and a- as you say, keep it real, right?

But I wonder, right? And then this is my question for you really, what is the one concrete way a brand new company can build instant credibility on their website besides, of course, keeping it real? What does that mean in, in reality, in practical terms?

PAUL MOSENSON: we’re talking about at the end of the day, somebody reviewing the website or the w- and making a decision before you even talk to sales, things like that.

So I think what you’re asking is, there’s a number of factors, but I think number one is, especially if you’re a newer company, is the per- the people, the passion. And, sometimes there’s less of that. they’re shiny toys, And I, think I mentioned that to you before is… Now, again, there could be some other factors here, but, Like we said, buying from people.

“Hey, we have this new solution here. We’ve got some great developers. our early results, have worked well. We have crowdfunding and, I’ve been doing this for years, and yes, we’re a startup, but we’re passionate about growing this, and we’d love to help you, grow your business. All we ask is for a conversation, and we’ll go through our solution.

Yes, it’s new, but it’s unique, And, there’s a lot of efficiencies that we built because of newer technology, but at the end of the day, though, we have great people behind us.” All right. Let’s set up a call, right?

RICK: Yeah. Yeah.

PAUL MOSENSON: No,

RICK: I can see that. I can see that. It’s that connection, right? The, the…

There’s humans behind it. You’re buying from people, not bots, right? So we go back full circle in a way.

PAUL MOSENSON: it’s the kind of thing that you guys do. I know there’s a lot of customization, but, always had the, I’m gonna be a little sarcastic here, about the exit popups, right?

And, whenever those… And Popdemons or whatever other tools. I’m sorry. But you know what I’m saying. There’s a lot of tools that, that, screen up, page down. Oh, this guy’s ready to leave. Let’s at least capture the lead somehow, right? But I’m ready to leave. But sometimes people don’t know what they’re looking for, which is why tools like you exist is, It’s okay. Just rem- again, it’s that if however you guys do it, with different solutions, it’s a strategy- of just remember we’re here for you, right? And our passion is there, However we wanna do it, ’cause it takes that human element away from the technology, like you said, is whatever AI is, Sometimes it may not be, the biggest difference because if the, if you review the messaging properly and say, this content has a point and maybe I should consider it,” The only reason I got in the first place was because, yeah, I do have an- a little anguish in our company, and we’ve been asked to review solutions, if it’s manufacturing or tech, whatever, CRM.

should we switch? ‘Cause, I always tell people everybody already has a solution. They do. And, what do you think customer success is? we’ll go someplace else. What’s customer success gonna do? Don’t leave us. We’ll give you a deal, right? So then you go back to the other company, he says, “Oh, we’re gonna stick with our current provider.

They gave us a…” it’s like- We think we’re marketing and this and that and, but, you gotta think about the buyer, right? and, the CFO at a company and, and whoever is making these decisions to say, “Should we, update our ERP system?” Or so- you know, like, how much is it gonna cost?

What’s the priority for next year’s budget, right? that’s part of the whole persuasion. I’m talking a lot here, but this is how, sales works, right? It’s not just, “Okay, let’s, here, send the proposal.” we gotta go through stakeholders and, and you gotta have internal advocates say, “We need to do this,” and we don’t see any of that happening, right? We’re just doing the follow-up emails. “Hey, anything going on yet?” still in process, still looking at it, my AI tools, I could just say, here’s a, checklist you can give your CFO on why you should buy now on his terms with his language.”

“Oh, thanks very much. I could help.” that kind of thing. Yeah. But, maybe I’m talking too much here, but I guess what we’re saying here is, it’s that whole process, and you have to keep it real.

RICK: Of course. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think you touched on something important, which is… And I think it’s there in a keyword, right?

Persuasion. And, we talked about this offline, right? I know at NuSpark you conduct, uh, these persuasion audits, right? On websites. maybe, maybe we can give us an idea of what that means, and I know you have the, that example. I don’t wanna butcher it, the, the 100- It’s okay … K buyer opportunity, right?

Walk us through a common gap on, landing pages that, cause that high-value potential 100K buyer to bounce without converting maybe or, similar scenario, if you will.

PAUL MOSENSON: Yeah. A couple factors here I’ve seen is, and, and I challenge people is, This is you’ve, you probably have read about this before, the thing about feature, benefit, outcome mix, right?

We do this, we have this. Great, what’s it mean to me, right?

you always gotta talk in the best you can in your buyer’s language, which is, there’s always two things that I always talk about is why should I consider your service, and why should I consider it from you, right? And, you have to answer those things strategically.

it may not be fully out front, it’s, that trust messaging of these guys know what they’re talking about. They got good guides, they got good resources. They’ve been around for a while. The, my own pet peeve, the About Us leadership team has people on it, right? where, they’re actually in their experience, that’s, and say, “I think I trust them.”

and because they’re talking my language to me. Why do you think a lot of these companies may not do well at that? So they have the industry on their menu, right? So they could say, “Oh, okay, you got the general,” and now they do different industry targets, which is fine because then it’s more in my language.

And if you’re not doing that and you’re being generic, you may not understand my business, and then I might leave. So there’s all these different little factors of targeting on a website that I look at, and see, that whole, scenario of the old you talking to me mentality, right?

so that’s number one. again- the second thing is, it’s okay to have some calls to action, at the bottom of the site, remind people of testimonials. not that people read them, they just remind me that there’s, some proof, right? and we talked about earlier, if you don’t have much proof, you gotta overcome that with the passion of the owner and the team, right?

but if you have the proof, and real proof here, how many trusted buys with big giant logos are we gonna see, right? I don’t think that convinces me as much as, actual real people who’ve used your service, even with video. but, if… But this is always that challenge and mix and just trying to have that whole framework of, persuasion, and trust and all those things, that I look at with the messaging.

RICK: Yeah. No, I really like how you look at, the funnel, the attribution modeling, all the tech tools, but you also keep hammering on that human touch that, you know, that connection with people, right? It… w- who are the people behind it? what’s in it for me, the person reading this, right?

I’m also curious though, ’cause I- you mentioned at the beginning, all, of this, this or- orchestration with the tools and, the, frameworks, if you will. When you’re running a new outreach campaign, how do you segment that message so it, doesn’t look like spam? Or how do you integrate the tech, if you will, into a, a demand gen, campaign without using that, that critical human touch?

PAUL MOSENSON: let me, I use… M- my focus with AI always has been is the director of ideation. Okay?

RICK: Okay.

PAUL MOSENSON: And then align that with the client’s personality, brand, and messaging to personalize it a little more, right? there’s… I have, I build tools. I, I have ways to… There’s two things you have to do with messaging.

And, it’s one thing is personalize it, tweak it up, have a different style than just general AI. I have all these tools myself that would do let’s do a, storytelling message. Now let’s do a guilt message. Now let’s do a case study message. people have different responses, but again, the preview text and the subject line brings somebody in, and you can’t forget all about that, versus the message.

Don’t think people are gonna see those messages, and, and we’re talking about cold email or whatever, or even nurture email. unless something, in a busy day, on a weekend, whatever, said, “Oh, that’s interesting.” Okay? Otherwise, skip, skip, skip, But, the, so many things involved, So if you take We talk about like inbound, outbound, right? let’s say inbound or we wanna use a demand generation, which is lead magnet advertising or offers in, social media. It’s the ads, right? You don’t have those people in your database. Your, strategy is to bring people in by spending money on marketing, hopefully you get with the content.

That’s why content syndication’s so big. You’re, solving someone’s problem. With AI, you can test these things now easily, and you put them into your funnel and follow up and do really compelling messages based on the targets you reach. if I’m, if I have three ICPs, I want three different lead magnets and three different funnels and messaging because they know that I know their business, right?

it’s the same thing with testing different pain points that one ICP may have. That’s one thing. That’s a demand generation funnel. Now, if you go to the GTN thing that’s out there and the intent signal data, it’s great stuff, but you still gotta say, “Okay, here’s my funding funnel.

Here’s my, you know- New hire funnel, And, reference that. Yeah, the data’s out there, but it’s better than being generic and, say, “Hey, I heard you have… Congratulations on your new position.” people you might talk to in your, business might be looking at updating solutions and like to introduce you to mine, right?

because they’re always looking at things from a fresh perspective. That’s why those, that data exists, right? so, you create that in the way… When I talk about orchestration is you got the audience, you got the, custom messaging, custom offer, custom landing page for them, which is easily done.

Custom forms, custom CRM funnels. Everything is to that audience to be as personalized as possible versus generic. And so you have to have all these different layers. And not only that though, I get anal with links and tracking, on my website, every digital marketer should know it, but from an education standpoint, which campaigns are, quote, working better, by the links that they’re clicking.

They’re coming back to a website, that’s a trigger, lead score. all these different factors to, give a salesperson a hint to say, “Go after them,” I’ve always had, CRM lookalikes, CRM data, and that’s another segment. all these different segments, old prospect…

we’re always looking at something in sales to try to ignite, whether it’s an existing email or a code. When- If it’s existing, if it’s existing- Yeah … and it’s old, then you gotta… Now, what’s the word? Orchestration. You better go back in and, enrich that data and make sure they’re verified again.

They could have new jobs, right? And, you know- There’s, the… There’s a lot of factors involved with this whole f- orchestration, which is why I talk about it. It’s not just- here, let it run. it’s not gonna work, Hey, you gonna warm up your email? let’s get a new domain, guys, and wait two months.

What? Two months or so? you’ve got to warm up, right? New domains, you gotta build that reputation if you’re gonna do cold email through your, GTM platform. Oh, got it.

RICK: Yeah. No, that’s a great point. And, we’re learning, I’m learning a lot personally, ’cause we, of course, we, do all of those things, here at Pathmonk, but, just understanding how you think about it is, quite interesting.

And, I wish we had more time, Paul, but, before we actually wrap things up, I’d love to switch gears for a second and maybe talk about you as a leader. What, typically we wanna know, A, what do you do on a daily basis, right? What are the main things you focus on? What’s a day in the life like?

it ca- it can be, it can span out, span outside of work, of course. but what’s, what’s a day in the life of Paul like?

PAUL MOSENSON: Oh, boy. Personalize it. always thinking, probably too much. Little OCD. I love education. I love books. I love teaching. I do substitute teach once in a while.

I also love music. I love making people happy. I’m a part-time DJ. I do, I go to senior homes sometimes- Wow … and entertain them for a couple hours, just to get out of the, ritual here. I just, to be involved with people and making them happy. And, even in business, I do wanna see people happy, and I know, I wanna be, I don’t wanna be cliched, with passion and all that stuff, but, you’re dealing with all kinds of people out there, and, I’m there to help.

But, so a lot of times, in fact, with a, custom GPT sometimes I create new messages and I, to be honest, again, it’s ideation and I personalize it, but one of my new ones is called like, Stop, Pay Attention. Okay? That’s what I called it. And what that means is, stop the insanity, Pay attention to this, right? something you don’t realize, did you know on Google you can target signals as well as, besides all this GTM stuff? You can create a, display campaign targeting certain websites or people interested in certain topics. Isn’t that signal too? Have you done that?

remember, that’s a, that’s another example, right? Or, you can, that’s just examples of, using GTM with Google, And, there’s so much targeting out there and you just gotta manage it. But, again, I’m always learning and, there’s so much technology out there, but you gotta step back sometimes and say- Okay, fine.

Okay, this… How, is this going to help my business, right?

just because I learned what an MCP is in Claude doesn’t mean, “Oh, hire him today, he knows MCP.” it’s not the, it’s not the answer. Yeah. The answer is, what can you do that we’re not doing now to help us grow our business?

We’ve been taken before. We don’t… we’ve had marketers, whatever, do websites and, what can you do differently, to, help us grow our business? Or we have a marketer, she needs help or he needs help, whatever it is, what can you do? That’s where the orchestration comes in- is to, align with them and make them rock stars.

And then, and they’re stronger together because of my experience and passion. that’s it.

RICK: Yeah. Yeah. Paul, I can tell you, you’ve been a rock star on this episode. you’ve shared a lot of insights, so I wanna thank you a lot for, of course, for being on the show with us today. Also, I wanna give you the last word.

If someone say… I think I’ll find it hard to believe, but they forget everything about the interview today, what is the one thing they should remember about the work you are doing at, at NuSpark Marketing?

PAUL MOSENSON: Oh, I can answer that two ways. I could say the Accelerate growth efficiently. That’s the business three words, and the personal three words would be, passion to help, and contribute. I, I could be a number one, but I’m happy to be a number two. Work together.

RICK: Love that. Love that. What a way to close.

Paul, if people want to check you out, they wanna know more about your precision audits or, the way you work, how can they do it? where can they go?

PAUL MOSENSON: Just go to the website, nusparkmarketing.com. That’s it. Anything-

RICK: They’ll

get, a taste of it.

PAUL MOSENSON: They will get a taste, And, there’s a lot of content there, and I did it on purpose. Some people say it’s too much, but it’s also how I think, And I use AI to create images that showcase visually how orchestrations work. there could be different tools out there, like a new trade show tool. You can capture leads at trade shows.

Or there could be, a new video tool that, you can do online video on demand easily with a landing page. Whatever it is, these are all, little things that could be part of orchestrations. You can learn all that. That’s why it’s all there. because it’s- Awesome … it’s a marketplace of solutions versus just, “Hey, I’m just gonna fix your website.”

No, it’s more than just that, There’s- we’re… I’m here to feed hungry salespeople.

RICK: And there’s lots of them out there. Pa- Paul, I, I highly recommend they go and check out your website and, curious to see what people think. And, Paul, again, thank you for being with us today, and it was really, it was really insightful, and I wish a wonderful day.

PAUL MOSENSON: Thanks very much, Rick.

RICK: Of course. Appreciate

PAUL MOSENSON: it.

RICK: All right. We’re out, ladies and gentlemen.