Crafting Trustworthy Digital Presence Ethically | Robert Carnes from Green Mellen

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Alright, welcome to today’s episode of Pathmonk Presents. Today we are joined by our guest Robert Carnes. He’s the marketing director at Green Mellen and he’s also the author of Story Cycle. Robert, welcome to the show.

Robert: Thank you so much for having me. Looking forward to the conversation.

Rick: Of course. Let’s get to the basics for a second, Robert. So you’re an author and you’re also a marketing director. Can you tell us a little bit about the work you’re doing at Green Mellen? Tell us about your company a little bit and, if you were explaining it over coffee to a friend, how would you describe what you do?

Robert: Sure. Yeah, that’s a great way to frame it. The boilerplate, I suppose, is that Green Mellen is a boutique marketing firm here in Atlanta, Georgia. We serve clients in a lot of different ways. Digital marketing can mean a lot of different things, but ultimately we help people get found and grow their business by having a better digital marketing presence. So a lot of that is your website, but also social media, blogging, email—all those lists of services.

We’ve been in business since 2009, so over 15 years—this will be year 16. We have a relatively small team of full-time employees. We’ve got nine people on our team. We have about 15 other contractors who work with us—copywriters, designers, web developers—who we call on when we need a little bit more work to serve our clients.

And we also really value two things very highly: responsiveness—we really want to be that agency who’s not gonna leave you in the dark—and education. We’ll talk about that maybe a little bit more later, but we have a lot of different things that we do in the community and online to try to make sure that people understand the best practices and good things to do with digital marketing. Because there’s plenty of bad out there, and we want to help people do things the right way, whether they’re our client or not. We’re trying to help build a brighter web through better digital marketing.

Rick: I love it. And does that have anything to do with—when we were talking offline—I know there’s something coming up soon in October, right? Do you want to talk about that for a second?

Robert: Yeah, absolutely. So we have been hosting community marketing meetups for about the past 10 years—gatherings of 30 to 40 local marketing folks, some small business owners, other marketing freelancers. We have a nice community here in Atlanta of people we know and work with. We do that every month—just pick a topic and talk about it.

But we’ve been talking for a couple years now: what if we did that on a larger scale and actually had a marketing conference? So we’re trying that out for the first time. The first Brighter Web Conference is here in Atlanta on October 9th, 2025. We’re planning all that. We thought, okay, this will be easy—we’ve done these events before—but there’s a lot more logistics that go into planning a much larger event. Again, we’ve got a couple months to put that together. We’ve got a great lineup of awesome speakers. So if anybody is here in Atlanta or wants to travel to Atlanta, you can check out the first Brighter Web Conference. We’re very excited about it and hope to have a good turnout. That’s one of the big things we’ve got coming up that aligns with our focus on education.

Rick: Very cool, and I’m sure it is exciting. And I’m sure also the logistics side of things—it’s a little bit crazy, right?

Robert: Yes.

Rick: But that’s good. It’s going to get people together—people shake hands and be in the same room. There’s a particular kind of energy when that happens. I’m glad you guys are doing it and hope it’s a great success.

Just going back to Green Mellen—are there any specific businesses or industries where you feel like your services really shine? Or maybe, as a segue, is there a key problem that you help these businesses solve, and what kind of experience can they expect when they work with you?

Robert: Sure. Our target market—the folks that we tend to work best with—are small to midsize B2B service companies. We’re not doing a bunch of B2C or product-focused stuff. We’ve done e-commerce in the past, but realized that takes a very different model than we do. So a lot of our businesses are professional service companies—accountants, lawyers, construction companies, business coaches, wealth management companies. There’s a lot of different industries we could get into, but that’s the model we tend to work best with.

That model has a unique set of problems—how they get found. Often, that’s a long sales cycle. It’s not transactional like e-commerce. A lot of it is about relationships, building long-term trust, and word-of-mouth referrals. We do a lot of digital stuff—you can influence word of mouth and those relationships—but it’s something you need to foster and cultivate over time. So it’s a pretty unique challenge we’re helping them solve. Really, it’s about having a good, solid, consistent online presence that helps influence business decisions. It’s always a moving target, but that’s the most common type of business we work with and the most common problem we help solve.

Rick: Very good. Thanks for that. So I’m curious—maybe you can look at this as marketing director of Green Mellen or from your client’s perspective—but how much of a role does the website play in pulling clients? And from your experience, looking at probably hundreds of websites, is there anything that you think really works for converting or anything people should improve?

Robert: Sure. Thinking about the website’s role in the buyer’s journey for a B2B service company—it’s really about establishing trust, building credibility, and showing what they can do. The website isn’t always the first place someone hears about a business. Often they come from a networking event, a community sponsorship, LinkedIn, etc.

They go to the website to answer a few key questions—who are these people, what do their clients say about them? It’s about solidifying that trust and credibility. That’s different from transactional e-commerce. The website is about putting your best foot forward: “You’re making a wise decision by trusting us as a partner.”

I think doing that well really comes down to having a clear, well-written message. Of course, you need good design, fast loading, SEO, etc., but I’m a copywriter and an author by trade, so that’s where my mind goes. That’s one of the big services we offer—clear messaging strategy. If someone visits the site to “sell” the decision internally, you’re giving them a clear message: we understand your problem, we offer a solution, and we can guide you through it.

There are many beautiful websites that are vague or lack compelling copy. We assume nobody reads websites anymore, but maybe we just haven’t made the content interesting. Make the writing compelling. Yes, use headers and make it scannable—but don’t assume people won’t read. Craft your copy to help visitors understand how you can benefit them. That’s what transforms a website from blah to something that actually converts.

Rick: That’s the art and science of copywriting—there’s magic behind it. So, do you have any tools or frameworks that help? Maybe copywriting frameworks or anything you’ve seen work over the years?

Robert: Sure. I’ve got two frameworks and two tools to suggest.

First, frameworks: Donald Miller’s StoryBrand is somewhat of an industry standard. The book Building a StoryBrand lays it out—it’s about storytelling and positioning yourself as a guide in the customer’s journey.

Second, a newer philosophy I follow is “Just No BS Strategy” by Alex M. Smith. He talks about differentiating yourself—not by saying you’re the best, but by becoming the only one in your niche. It helps you think differently and cut through noise. I don’t stick to either framework religiously, but both are compelling and helpful.

Tools: First is the Hemingway App. Drop your text in—it analyzes readability, highlights complex or vague sections, and gives you actionable edits. It’s based on Ernest Hemingway’s sparse prose style. It helps make your writing clearer and tighter.

Second is Headline Studio by CoSchedule. It helps with optimizing H1s, H2s, email subject lines, podcast titles, etc. It scores your headlines and suggests better structure, word choices, and lengths. Since headlines are what draw people in, that’s huge.

Rick: Awesome. I’ve used Hemingway before but didn’t know about Headline Studio. Sounds like a killer tool for hooks, right?

Robert: Yes. And as many people say, the hook is like 90% of the work. That tool really helps you hone it.

Rick: Love that. Alright, let’s switch gears. What does your typical workday look like? What do you focus on daily?

Robert: A lot of my time is spent doing client strategy—writing marketing and messaging strategies, doing research and interviews. That’s a big part of my role. I still do some copywriting, though we now have contract copywriters. I enjoy it, but I’ve had to let go of more as I’ve grown in responsibility.

I also lead quarterly check-ins with clients—preparing content, running the meetings, ensuring alignment and task management.

On top of that, I contribute to our Brighter Web initiative—co-hosting our podcast, leading community meetings, preparing for the conference. It helps build awareness and credibility. Many people learn about Green Mellen through that.

Rick: Only that?

Robert: Only that, yeah! I’m sure I missed a few things—it adds up!

Rick: I’m not surprised. Agency pace is fast, and marketing adds more hats to wear. Congrats to you for staying sane.

Robert: Not sure about that some days—but yes, creative writing helps me stay grounded. It’s my outlet.

Rick: I totally get that—being in flow, in a land of no time. Writing can really be that.

Robert: Absolutely. Whether it’s fiction or nonfiction, it helps me express myself and process things.

Rick: Awesome. Let’s wrap with our rapid fire round. Short answers if possible. Ready?

Robert: Let’s do it.

Rick: Latest book you picked up and what stuck with you?

Robert: 4,000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals. It’s about how to juggle life’s demands and stay sane. The big takeaway: slow down and focus on what enriches you.

Rick: If you had a magic wand to fix one tech frustration in marketing, what would it be?

Robert: I’d eliminate scammy emails and cold calls. They erode trust and hurt those of us trying to market ethically.

Rick: Last question: if you could go back and give your younger self a pep talk, what would you say?

Robert: Don’t chase shiny trends. Focus on the basics and long-term, boring-but-effective strategies. It’ll save you a lot of wasted effort.

Rick: What a great lesson to close. Robert, thank you so much for being on the show. Final word—what should people remember about Green Mellen and where can they find you?

Robert: You can find us at greenmellenmedia.com and on all the major social channels. Subscribe to our newsletter. We try to educate marketers and do marketing in a way that actually improves the world. That’s our mission—make the world a better place through ethical, effective marketing.

Rick: Love that message. Thanks again, Robert. Hope to see you again soon.

Robert: Absolutely. Thank you so much for the conversation.

Rick: Of course. Bye everyone.